Funny, time and time again I read posts from amarr pilots that complain about amarr battleship cap issues and not being able to fire all their guns without running dry on cap (I can only imagine how this feels as I am using a golem most of the time) and now you get one ship that can do exactly that and what do I read again... complaints. -..-

What are those new tech2 resistances on marauders, do they compensate lack of bonuses to the local reps?

Well, the kronos and Paladin Pilots wanted their webs.

So now it's all of them or none of them.

Pve is not about tanking more it's about dps. Implementing new module that gives defensive boost to ships that did not had tanking problems to begin with is bad design. I love the idea of tranformation and i reaaaally hope its not gonna end up like the dreds (guns sticking out a bit).

I'm more worried about the fact that so many people seem to only care about its level four mission performance, and not care about any other forms of PvE. The last round of changes is a vast improvement to its PvE ability in incursions, wormholes, lowsec, and nullsec, and everyone is crying because now it only knocks L4 mission difficulty down to "profoundly autistic" instead of going all the way to "syphilitic ******** monkey" levels of easy.

Crimminy still with the "waah waah Marauders will suck at level 4's with Bastion and MJD".

Here's the thing: MJD + Bastion might not suit your style of doing level 4's as you do them now (slowly motor to out gate while blam-blam) and you may need to adjust your play style to utilise them propelry...but how is that 'ruining' the ship class for its supposed 'intended role'?

The idea with designing a ship class should be to give it capabilities and let it loose and see where it ends up. People thought the Tengu was so-so for level 4's, and then they discovered the 100MN fits, and the price of CNR's dipped because you could get equal performance and way too much tank from a Tengu. This shows that what you may think a ship is intended for gets warped and twisted around by the players who find novel and unique ways to use them.

I thought the MJD was a fairly pointless module. Suddenly, there's people mumbling the 3 minute cooldown timer hurts them because they have to jump away from Level 4 mission rats twice which takes them 6 minutes to get back to gate.

Oh, hey, you can do it in 1/3rd the time with a Marauder with the Bastion mode! zomg!

The problem with the line of thinking that marauders are intended for PVE in level 4s (or as now, warped by Incursion bear whining) is that this leads to revisions and rebalances that further force the ship into what "the community' sees as an intended role.

Sure, this may be true of HICs and Dictors and Logi of all kinds, as these are very specialised ships. However, all other T2 combat ships have ship bonuses which give them special abilities and people automagically come up with interesting uses. Sentry ishtar ratting? Check. Blops running 8/10's? Check. Stealth bombers doing level 4 FW missions? Check. Soloing level 4's in Retributions? Check. Oh. My. God. CCP better buff these ships so they are more effective at their intended role of missioning!

Sarcasm in case you missed it.

The iteration 1 marauder changes gave us a niche PVP ship which would solo small POSs (yeah baby), Dickstars (hahaha), totally ruin the lamest "PVP" in EVE (being docking games), allow donut punching of lowsec gate camps (huehuehue). The problem? You can't run incursions. But you CAN destroy Level 4's. Well, shucks.

iteration 2 is a compromise which barely reduces the Marauder's use in PVE, assuming you can figure out MJD missioning style and aren't prone to ridiculously overtanking your ships for missions because you want your AFK Rattler back. It really only increases their use back to slightly worse than pirate BS for incursions. not that anyone uses them in incursions now, nor will they afterwards.

What it does do is destroys its use in PVP in any conceivable fashion. Docking games are back on because if you are going to undock a marauder, you may as well undock a Vindicator. Yay, thumbs up!

Lowsec gate camps won't have to worry about these things permatanking them while their gangmates destroy the pirates. Your sniper mode Marauder is gone, the 80% web being about as useful as bulls with DD boobs.

Whereas before i was looking forward to dropping one into harms way, assured that if I calculated right I'd have a good 10-15 minutes of fun and get a few kills baiting people, now its just a more expensive and less useful navy Faction BS equivalent with a "kill me now" module and no utility.

Be brave, CCP Ytterbium. Maybe fiddle the Bastion resist bonus to being a free DCU, or 5% across the board non-penalised. Keep the active rep bonus so you can actually tank outside Bastion mode (while, eg, hoofing it to gate), and tank in the 2-3K range while in it. You will then have a small gang or even solo boat able to punch hard, tank stronk and be a PITA.

Structure the other bonuses to actually work together to make a formidable long range platform which can protect itself from numpty ceptor pilots, idiots who blow their sig and can't tank 1000-1200 DPS and can't rid themselves of tackle. Leave the web bonus out, it will then be the achilles heel and force marauder pilots to work hard on their fits to counter the inevitable hero tackle Incursus of doom.

Iteration 1 Marauders, piloted by smart people with good gangs who pick their fights were going to be a handful. Well, guess what, an 850 DPS 280K EHP rail Proteus is a handful right now and you don't have any "kill me now" module on T3's like you do with iteration 2.

1.)
in incursions you have dedicated web (lokis)

The four utility high slots are too much. Three to four neutralizers for station games, four slot spider tank... Those alone with the t2 resists are worth the isk and sp requirements.

If there was ever a reason to buy a marauder, this was not it.

Honestly salvaging on the fly...

The only time I ver used that tractor beam range bonus was when I wanted to get that mission critical loot one minute earlier...

Doesn't happen that often, as I could just kill all, warp out and come back with my noctis. And once you go for blitzing all missions, you've got a MWD anyways, no?

Bastion doesn't have a damage bonus, why would you use these for structure bashing?

Bad reading comprehension?

Sorry, I may not have made it clear. I was saying that the Marauder would have a niche so small people most likely won't even bother training for them. I was comparing it to the dread, which has the 2 purposes of structure and capital bashing.

showme

This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin?
Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas.

there is no reason to use javelin torp over simple T2 cruise. Sadly.

The thing is, they were only supposed to be for niche PVP situations and small gang or solo at that, the T2 resists were added because fleet whiners.

But I am really not sure that T2 ressist means that I will get ressists of heavy assault ships :-) (who know what they mean by saying T2 resists). Can someone confirm me this?

Designing marauders for PvE is what ruined them in the first place. They need to be balanced for PvP because mission runners are just going to pick the ship that runs missions the quickest anyway.

yes i do - marauders already fight attrition warfare, through utility high slots sporting remote repair modules, they sit back spider tanking raining death, this is what this iteration of bastion says it's trying to get them to do...just without the RR cuz..you're in bastion mode you can't receive remote aid, this means that if you're within the enemy's firing line while in bastion mode, you die - just as dreads die sieged to battleship alpha fleets now, no amount of self mounted repair modules will save you against a fleet.

Indeed , ill shout.

CAN WE GET A BLUE TAG HERE PLEASE!!!!!!

so what? 72 pages w/o updated by CCP

Which gun module are you talking about? And without which EWAR module and which propulsion module exactly will those ships be useless. And which of those modules can only be used by that very ship?

You also want to almost force pilots to use the MJD, which really isn't practical, unless of course you plan on putting all the mission gates exactly 100KM apart?

From the sounds of it, would highly like the 100% repairamount to become a 50% cycletime-reduction + 50% cap consumption reduction.

You need a way to kill frigs. 5 lights isn't going to cut it in higher end PvE. Hell 10 or even 15 might not cut it in 10/10 plexes with 30+ of them or C3/C4 container sites and their swarms of super elite frigs.

not sure if im doing this right but i think your losing a 37.5% shield rep bonus for a 100% shield rep bonus... fair enough u can only rep that much for a minute at a time but still.

was the cooldown of the bastion module mentioned in the original dev post?

What sens from bastion in damage? Right,no sens.
If i can make missions more quickly at pirate BS,marauders still usless.
More tank there,where it's not need.
GIVE US MORE DPS!!!!

It doesn't work for the golem, because it became a ultra brick with the changes(read 731 m/s, with maxed navigation skills)

I just spent a bit of time trying out World's Collide in a Vargur and I have to agree with the sentiment that the range bonus does hardly anything on it.

I'd also like to mention that the Vargur seems overtanked now. Bastion mode really didn't help me complete anything faster because more tank doesn't help me do stuff faster.

To spread the usefullnes of Marauders in PVP maybe its worthwile to grant the Bastion Module a repair amount bonus not only to loal reps but rather also to RR reps?

That could be lead us to some interessting "triage" warfare with marauder wolfpacks.

It's a cool concept, but that would basically make the marauders moving auras or fleet boosters on top of the proper fleet boosters with ganglinks. Also would make marauders primaries all the time, and highly unlikeable due to their high price.

The reason I don't fly a Vindicator is because it is **** compared to the Paladin in armour incursions...

...and is **** against Sansha's in missions.

So now I will have to fly an inferior boat...

...until it is also nerfed, at which point the armour incursion channel will likely fold up, since running L4's at that point will be more profitable, until they get wrecked also.

A Nightmare will stomp all over any marauder in missions; and it shares the advantage of using half the ammo.

Yeah, because certain elements were always set in stone.

Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.

Where's the 4th iteration that makes these ships non-GARBAGE outside of "wannabedread" mode?

And Kronos being bumped up to a level where it's worth flying?

Did you stop giving a damn?

Nightmare pointless? you can fly it so early and switch to paladin when you have the skills. Isn't that the major advantage from T1 -> Faction -> T2. You have T2 potential at higher price with less skills.